Custom New Indian Motorcycle

Since the relaunch of Indian Motorcycle under new ownership I am waiting for the opportunity to feature a customized version of their factory Indian Chief.

This is the first one I have seen and it deserves the classification of custom because the Custom Dark model used as a platform was stripped down to the frame and completely rebuilt. Not only a new paint job but a suspension lowering job and a ton of parts have been changed from exhaust, to front and rear lighting to handlebars to seat to bags to mirrors, etc.

As a matter of fact, the owner wanted an Indian looking exactly like the custom one from actor George Clooney. Now that a dealer has shown you way the way with this mild custom (customization by ), I expect others to go to an even more radical way. I will feature the best ones…

54 Responses to “Custom New Indian Motorcycle”

  1. 1 Brother T. Dec 31st, 2010 at 9:21 am

    I’m not wild about the fringe and the studded bags. I know that’s cosmetic, but I think that would be a really sharp looking bike otherwise.

  2. 2 golfish Dec 31st, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    I agree 100% with Brother T….not a big fan of fringe and studs. Still a nice looker.

  3. 3 Dave Blevins Dec 31st, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    I’ve said it several times and will say it again, I’m glad to see Indian back on the road, I really am.
    I’ll be even happier when this “blacked out” fad dies. It just looks cheap… not retro, not cool, not custom, just cheap.

  4. 4 Unkl Ian Dec 31st, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    What motor is being used in these new Indians ?

  5. 5 golfish Dec 31st, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Unkl Ian,
    I’ve read that they make their own engine. I’m not sure what that means tho. I have also read they use Baker Tranny’s. Its just hear say because I have never seen a new one.

  6. 6 Lyle Dec 31st, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    They make the engine. I’m not sure if they manufacture the components. But the engine is based on a Harley Evo design so it should be reliable if the QC/QA is good. Same with the primary. Although it’s a good looking bike, I personally am fundamentally against an “Indian” using a drivetrain based on a Harley Davidson. They were worlds apart back when Indian was the original company and if they had survived, they wouldn’t look anything like this. They ones I’ve seen in person however, are really well detailed. Unlike the Gilroy era bikes.

  7. 7 Brother T. Dec 31st, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    I’ve been thinking more about that bike. It’s got a neat retro military look. Add some engine guards, fabricate some hard saddle bags that look similar to .50 cal ammo cans, and I think you’d have a really cool look.

    But you still have to lose the fringe…

  8. 8 Wiz Jan 1st, 2011 at 9:13 am

    I’d ride it, but be extra careful ’cause it’s green [bad luck ya know]. I’ve got fringe all over me from head to toe [some of it is starting to unravel ‘an fall off]! And as far as STUD goes, well, let’s just say it still works under the right conditions! YUK-YUK!! Wiz

  9. 9 09 Indian Rider Jan 1st, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Hey Lyle.
    The KM bike ARE Gilroy era bikes with a few tweaks.
    I’ve ridden both.
    Both have their problems–both have their es.
    Pretty much all parts will interchange between the Gilroy and KM version.
    As for the detailing?
    Different paint, and not as well made leather as the Gilroys but a nice look.

  10. 10 Larry Jan 1st, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Gilroy era Indians are 90% crap. The new Indian company fixed all their problems. The leather seats of the new Indian Chiefs are top of the line. 09 Indian Rider forgot to disclose that he is biased for professional reasons.

  11. 11 09 Indian Rider Jan 1st, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    No LARRY it is what it is.
    Seats and saddle bags on the new KM Indians aren’t up to the quality of the Gilroy Era bikes.
    All you have to do is take a look and talk to the guys who own those bikes.
    If you bother to go down to a dealership you can see quite clearly that the bags are even collapsing into themselves setting on the show room floor.
    As for the seats?
    Indian KM informed me there would be a recall on them shortly after the bike I rode was purchased in 2009.
    The flaps on the sides of the seat would not stay down when you rode the bike–kind of strange looking to climb off and have the side panels on the seat flipped up.
    As for Gilroy era Indians being 99% crap?
    Matter of opinion I suppose–I really like the one I ride.
    As for the new Kings Mountain Company fixing all the problems on the bike they cloned?
    Matter of opinion once again.
    The KM bikes seem to have plenty of problems of their own to be sorting out.
    some problems the same as the Gilroy bikes–some problems specific to the KM bikes.
    Safe rides out at you LARRY.
    And let me know when you buy a KM Indian–there’s a few things you should be aware of.

  12. 12 Brett Jan 2nd, 2011 at 11:03 am

    I would like to know the issues of these bikes. I have yet to ride one, but I have been into the St. Paul dealer a few times & the bikes LOOK quality made.

    As for the engine, they are going off the Power Plus 100 engine Gilroy put out in 2003 or the Crazyhorse as Brass balls Bobbers likes to call them….whatever it has the same look, but the dealer told me they have redone the entire engine on the inside.

    Yes, they use Baker’s & why not?? It’s one of the best tranny’s out there.

    As far as the Blacked Out look…it’s all a matter of opinion. I don’t think it looks cheap at all. Some people think putting chrome all over the place is ridiculous as well.

    The major thing keeping me from seriously considering 1 of these bikes is the cost…& the fact the closest dealer is 5 hours East, West or South from my home. But $30 K for a bike, especially when you can get a HD Street Glide with hard bags, fairing and stereo for $19 K….like I said, never rode one yet, so I question if these are real TOURING bikes, or if they ride more like a Fatboy or Heritage Softail rides…..

    Still with some of the stuff Harley & Victory are doing now….I’m glad Indian is around.

  13. 13 09 Indian Rider Jan 2nd, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Hello Brett;
    Hard to figure exactly what to call them.
    These bikes come pretty no frills.
    No cruise control kind of surprised me.
    Well it will be interesting to get a look insode the first one to get an overhaul.
    Engine cases look to be cast from the Gilroy molds no one knows what’s inside them.

  14. 14 09 Indian Rider..WHATEVER Jan 3rd, 2011 at 9:21 am

    John, *ahem 09 Indian Rider* are you still bitter about not being able to buy Indian back in 05? Comon now.. Stop bashing and start lovin! The bikes are a major improvment.. You know this..

  15. 15 Richie Finney London Jan 3rd, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Indian died in 1953. R.I.P.

  16. 16 Richie Finney London Jan 3rd, 2011 at 10:43 am

    P.S. 1941 Rider

  17. 17 09 Indian Rider Jan 3rd, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Hello Mr. “Indian Rider..WHATEVER”.
    You have me mistaken for someone else.
    My name is Ed.
    As far as I know John is not even aware of this thread.

    As for the bikes being improved?

    The one I rode had it’s own set of issues all documented in writing by the Kings Mountain Factory.
    Some unique to that bike–some seem to be cropping up in other KM bikes as well.

    Just a Heads Up “09 Indian Rider..WHATEVER”?
    There is a big difference between “bashing” and being honest.

    As for your statement that the KM bikes are a “major improvement”?
    How so?
    What exactly are the improvements you speak of?
    How many miles do you have on a Kings Mountain Indian?
    Would you like to share your own personal experiences with the folks on the board.

  18. 18 Mj Jan 3rd, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    I own a ’00 Chief, and I ride with several ’00,’01 Chief owners. 40, 50, 60,000 miles on are bikes and they still run strong. Basic ignition upgrades, a little know how and you can run’em hard all day. Say what you want but, they run great! My bike has earned every mile. Plus they never get lost in the crowd.

  19. 19 09 Indian Rider Jan 3rd, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    I’m with you Mj.
    Love my Indian Cheef.
    And I’ve enjoyed every mile I’ve ever put on an Indian Motorcycle KM or Gilroy.

  20. 20 Indian Owner Jan 4th, 2011 at 8:30 am

    Interesting discussion.

    First off, I’m not just a rider, I am an Indian collector. I own quite a few of them, from ALL the eras of Indian. Unlike some owners of antique or classic era Indians, I personally don’t subscribe to the “Indian died in 1953” school.
    The same thing could be said, actually, several times about Indian, starting when Hedstrom and Hendee were, essentially, forced out of the company in 1916. (Friend of mine with a 1914 insists that you could say the last “REAL Indians” were made in 1916.)
    Indian is a marque of motor vehicle, not some sanctified gospel.
    If it says Indian on the title, then it’s an Indian. But enough flogging that dead horse.

    Anyway, I own two of the ‘modern era’ Indians, one Gilroy and one KM version, and have ridden them both extensively. It is baffling to me why anyone who has ridden both versions for any distance whatsoever would claim that there are no differences in the ride and handling.
    There are, and they are considerable.
    The new bikes are quick, nimble, and handle like much smaller displacement motorcycles than they are. In comparison, my Gilroy Chief handles, frankly, like an elephant in a tutu.
    The reliability of the Gilroy Indian has been pitiful, particularly in comparison to the new bike. My Gilroy broke down on the way home from the dealership in 2002, and that has been the story since then.
    The only time my new Indian has seen the inside of the shop has been for scheduled maintenance. Admittedly, I only have about 5000 miles on it, but still…that is 4,950 miles further than my Gilroy made before breaking down the first time. In a discussion I had with the personnel at the factory during my tour (If you buy a bike, you get the option to pick it up at King’s Mountain and tour the factory and actually meet the guys who built your bike), they told me that they had made over 1800 modifications and improvements to the Gilroy bikes before they went to market and many more have followed as more bikes have been tested in the ‘real world’. Although they look similar cosmetically, they are vastly different motorcycles. If you follow the cycling press, you have to be aware that multiple publications have noted the numerous differences. Someone stated the engine cases are the same that Gilroy used. They are not. If you park my bikes side by side and inspect them, the differences are instantly and readily apparent.

    The fit and finish has been excellent, with the exception of a couple of parts that had chrome delamination, but those were replaced by the factory the moment they were discovered…via Fedex, at that. I am no sure what the other poster is referring to with reference to the leather quality. I happen to know that the very same company that manufactured the saddlebags for the ‘Classic Era’ Indians is who KM contracted with to make the new bike’s bags. The leather is thick, and well sewn, and to my eye, quite nice. But anyone can verify this by simply going to the dealership and inspecting the fit and finish themselves.

    The few issues that I HAVE had have gotten an immediate response from my dealership, or the factory, or both…both via email and telephone. I have no complaints about customer service whatsoever. I have even gotten a telephone call from Chris Bernauer, the General Manager of Indian Motorcycle, asking about my ownership experience, and soliciting comments or suggestions about how they might improve their product. How many of you have ever gotten a phonecall from the top brass at your marque asking how you liked your motorcycle? Amazing!

    The warts:
    -I hear there have been some issues with significant oil blowby from the air cleaner, but I have seen none of that. There was a factory fix for it, as I undestand it.
    -There were some reports of out-of-tolerance oil pumps, and some gas tanks that came from the vendors with less than excellent inside coating resulting in rust, but I did not have those issues either.
    -The onboard computer and electronics seem to draw an inordinate amount of power, and the bike has to be kept on a tender when not ridden daily, or the battery will die within one or two weeks.
    -The lack of a cruise control on a bike this expensive is a bit annoying, but I understand there is one in the works.
    -There is no gas gauge, but there is a ‘Fuel Countdown Meter’ function that comes on when you have about 50-60 miles left in the tank. You had better pay attention too, as there is NO reserve tank.
    -Several parts have had issues with chrome bubbling, but they have been replaced, and the issue has apparently been addressed with the vendor. All parts were replaced, under warranty within one day. I hear there have been other bikes with similar problems, which were also addressed to the satisfaction of the owners.
    -Hard mounted engine does transmit some vibration to the feet, less so to the hands, but not obnoxiously so.

    The bottom line: Beautiful, reliable (admittedly expensive) bike with excellent support. An extremely satisfying owner experience.
    Two thumbs up!

  21. 21 [email protected] Jan 4th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    I have no opinion on the Ride and Motor, cause I do not know anyone or have I seen 5 in Ft.Lauderdale in the last 3 Years, including The Toy Run! There were some 35,000 Bikes at that event. $30 G’s and up, for Year 2000 Technology. That also includes the Accessories, being outdated. .I would not want to Own one to use for a Trade on an HD or even a Honda. I would hate to be ready to change Bikes and having to sell my Indian, before I could purchase a new Bike. I guess I would have to go back to Indian, to buy another Indian, because they are the only Dealer that would “Allow” me $10,000 (maybe) for my 2006 against a $35,000 Ne w Indian! ….Eeeech!……..R.I.P.

  22. 22 09 Indian Rider Jan 4th, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Hello Indian Owner.
    Congratulations and smooth rides to you.
    Sounds like your KM experience has been awesome so far.
    My own experience on the 09 Roadmater I put 9000 miles on was a little different.
    I’ll use the same comparison you used.
    My Gilroy verses the KM experience.
    The 09 I rode seemed to have its own set of warts from the first day.
    First time I pulled the dipstick on the bike I was greeted with whipped cream oil – it was actually foamed up so bad the oil tank was pressurized.
    I was assured by the factory that the foaming was normal and not to worry about it.
    Later on in the first 400 miles I had the oil light come on during a ride–once again assured by the factory that I had no problems, and told to continue riding–long story but I chose not to continue the ride as I could feel the bike getting hot, and I could smell the oil cooking.
    Got the bike home, and sent it off to an authorized Indian Dealer for its 500 mile service.
    Short of the story is the bike was hijacked back to the factory without my knowledge (or the owners knowledge) and had the engine cases and oil pump replaced.
    Porosity in the engine cases and an out of tolerance oil pump was confirmed in writing by the Indian Kings Mountain Factory.
    The Authorized service center I took the bike to originally presented the owner with a $500 service bill despite the fact that the bike was rebuilt by the factory with less than 500 miles on it.
    I rode the bike back to Kansas City from Kings Mountain, and had trouble with the suspension coming through the Smokey Mountains. Stopped at another Indian Authorized service center to adjust the shock and found they had no adjustment spanner. The mechanic used a water pump pliers to adjust — not good on the “fit and finish” of the adjuster nuts.
    I’d agree with you that the KM bikes seem to be more nimble in town than the Gilroys. UNTIL you get the shock adjusted then they become more the same riding wise.
    That CLUNK you feel in the rear end is the bike bottoming out when you hit a rough spot on the highway at speed–shock adjustment will clear the bottoming issue but effect that ride you love–at least that was the case on my bike.
    Indian Kings mountain confirmed to me that the suspension on those bike is set up for a 140 pounder from the factory–I’m about 100 pouds over that, and so are most indian Riders I know.
    The 09 I rode brought a lot of firsts along with it and a lot of those firsts were poo-pood by a lot of people who have since then experienced the same issues.
    Oil blow by.
    Ignition surge. (Indian is offering an “upgrade” but it looks like you will have to pay for it.)
    Battery failures.
    Parts falling off. (Floor board covers not glued down well.)
    Saddle bag failures. (And – yes Indian KM did agree the saddle bags were lacking in quality to the point they ended up sending three sets.)
    Seat failure due to light weight materials.
    Mirrors that had to be replaced with in 1500 miles because they lost their dampners and would not stay adjusted.
    Lack of self cancelling turn signals. (yes a little thing but that is a lot of money for a motorcycle.)
    Lack of cruise control. (Big thing for a cruiser)

    Now for my Gilroy experience.
    8000 miles of trouble free riding.
    Blown out engine.
    28000 miles of trouble free riding.
    Blown out engine.
    10000 miles of trouble free riding and so far so good.
    The Gilroys do have and did have their own warts.
    Lot of folks had major problems same as the KM bikes. I guess I was one of the lucky ones. (With the exception of the engine)

    As for the 1800 changes KM made>
    Can’t say one way or another.
    I do know we were told that the KM and Gilroy bikes were different enough that “virtually no parts would interchange”.
    We kind of learned different when I started bolting KM parts (cosmetic) onto the Gilroy, and Gilroy parts onto the KM.
    Your engine?
    Once again I’m no expert but if you pull the Snake up alongside the KM and compare the marks it might surprise you.

    That KM Road Master I rode was no better or worse than the Gilroys I’ve been on.
    Both need TLC same as every other brand I suppose.
    The 09 Road Master I rode ended up going back to the factory after it was dumped in a low speed lay down.
    Broke the fork stop lug off, and there was some debate as to the weld quality.
    Same thing has happened to one other KM that i am aware of.
    I did have a lot of good times on that motocycle–and a lot of bad times. Same as the Gilroys I ride.
    Interesting last comment you made.
    Funny how opinions differ.
    The hard mounted engine on that KM never bothered my feet–the floor board dampners always did their job.
    The handle bars would always make my arms go to sleep up to the elbows from the vibration coming through them.
    Funny how different riders feel different things on a motorcycle.
    Happy Trails to you Indian Owner.

  23. 23 John White Jan 4th, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    I read through some comments on here and someone has mistaken me for Indian Rider. I always end my comments with my own name. If I have something to say I do not need to hide behind a false name. I post my name and my phone number.

    For those that believe the King’s Mountain bike is so much better and different than the Gilroy bike ask that you stick to the facts please. We Gilroy owners all waited for the new bike to come out that was suppose to be all new and different. Harvard style marketing confused everyone. I gave up reading the horse crap. Instead I purchased one of the 09’s and did my own analysis. I will list a few facts.

    1) same frame as the Gilroy
    2) engines made from Gilroy molds, heads too.
    3) a machine shop in Minnesota machines the engine cases
    4) the oil tanks are the same design and interchangeable with Gilroy
    5) The seat leather and bags are inferior to Gilroy
    6) The battery that comes with the bike had to be replaced a lot more
    7) Oil pump failed and engine castings leaked through pores in the casting
    8) Throttle response goofy due to using a automobile map

    The game plan came right out of the Harvard Economics handbook. The plan was to market the bike as all new and use the “Prestigious Pricing Model”. The plan is used by BMW 7 series cars where they only make 100 limited models and charge $140K each. In order for the plan to work you must delilver a super high quality product that customers rave about.
    I agree that it is great to see Indian open and providing sales and service. If they had truly come out with a super perfect bike that owners could rave about then their Prestigious Pricing Harvard business school project would have done well. Unfortunately there are still a lot of 2009 models on the show room floors and the news about their issues is known.

    It is a tough business model made more difficult by trying to sell high when the product was still in the development stages. I am sure they will stick to this model and try to get the bugs out. When they do I plan to buy one again. As far as one day owning Indian, I made my run and now I am too old to try again. I wish them luck.

    The Green Bike

    I suppose if you strip the bike down and put it back together, changing the paint and a few bolt on parts you can call it a custom. We Gilroy owners know better than to fall for the Harvard Marketing scheme.

    I closing, I wish Indian all the luck in the world for 2011.

    John L. White

  24. 24 JuanHungLow Jan 4th, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    I guess the “any press is good press” marketing scheme works in the Great Northwest. ..after watching the Social Network flick, I’d stick with the Harvard approach.
    Perhaps… if ya keep honking your own horn loud enough and long enough, all some people are gonna hear is noise.
    The bikes have been out in the general public’s hands long enough now that real un-biased reviews can be had if you pay attention and know who and where to stay away from….

  25. 25 John White Jan 4th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    I must have missed the chapter called “any press is good press” in the text book. The “Prestigious Pricing Model” can be studied by opening up the pages of “Managerial Economics by Christopher R. Tomas.(Foundation of business analysis and stratergy)

    The Prestigious Pricing Model needs three elements:

    1) A strong brand name
    2) A limited number of product
    3) High quality

    As I explained, the trouble with the model for Stellican is number three: High Quality

    In the “Prestigious Pricing Model” the product needs to be flawless.

    They did a great job skirting the recall issue. My hat is off to them. They did a great job listening to the Gilroy owners and fixing many of the issues associated with the Gilroy bikes. However, when they decided to clone the design they inherited issues unforeseen which arrived as new issues of their own.

    The 2002-2003 Gilroy was launched prematurely in hopes of launching an IPO to payback Audex. The IPO plan did not launch due to the many issues Gilroy was experiencing with the new bikes.

    Of course, this is well known on the street, right.

    John White
    MBA Student
    Foster Business School
    University of Washington

  26. 26 Greek Jan 4th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Should we trust John White’s comments? He is the guy who stated all over the web and in this blog that he owned the 2011 Hoka Hey Challenge. Then, he disappeared without any explanation. He owns Crazy Horse, a tiny (sleeping?) company that tried to copy the Gilroy Indian motor but had no money to pay the subcontracted engine manufacturer. Bitter? .

  27. 27 Mad River Motor Company Jan 4th, 2011 at 7:25 pm


    Your opinions on HBS are about as useful as a Hokey Hey motorcycle in a rain storm. I don’t talk about the gilroy era flywheels because I have no experience with them. You should treat Harvard the same way. What you think is a slam comes across as petty and gives little insight into the realities of Indian’s rebirth.

  28. 28 09 Indian Rider Jan 4th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Hey Greek.
    Why trust anyones comments?
    The facts are out there just go find them.
    Do the research and get hold of some of the Kings Mountain Indian Riders yourself.
    Facts are facts and it is what it is.
    Kings Mountain Indian is aware of this thread–it IS an advertisement.
    Whether it’s paid for or not?
    Who knows–who cares?
    Kings Mountain should feel more than welcome to discuss and debate any statements John or I made in this thread.
    Kings Mountain does not make a perfect motorcycle–neither does Harley–Kawasaki–Honda or any one else.
    Kings Mountain did get carried away with the hype and bull poo poo they introduced their “new” Indians with.
    Kings Mountain did eventually provide customer service and tried to fix some of the problems the 09 I rode had.
    Kings Mountain did not go out of their way or provide the “exceptional” customer service they led folks to believe they would provide.
    In fact they seemed to be in denial on a number of issues we had on that bike.
    I will say all the problems on that bike were eventually at least recognized as legitimate by Kings Mountain.
    My main copmplaint then and now is the “surging” the 2009s and 2010s are plagued with.
    The 09 I rode definitely had problems–and those problems would catch up with you when you really didn’t want them to be popping up.
    Course Kings Mountain was helped along spreading the hype by a certain riders group out there who fancied themselves the “viral marketing” geniuses of the motorcycle world.
    Even the hard core Indian boys from out West have kind of stepped back and taken another look at what Indian Kings Mountain is really selling.
    Funny how talk of the Kings Mountain bikes always brings out the quick shot artists who want to divert attention from the subject at hand — subject being Kings mountain Indians and what they really are or are not.
    Lets concentrate and keep on track here and see what we can learn about Kings Mountain Indian Motorcycles.
    There’s a dozen threads on Hoka Hey–go contribute to one of them if they interest you–subject here is Kings Mountain Motorcycles.
    By the way–if new paint and blacking out or chroming parts make a factory stock motorcycle a custom?
    There’s a boat load of custom Indian Motorycles running around out there.

  29. 29 09 Indian Rider Jan 4th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Hey Greek.
    Why not trust Johns comments.
    This thread appears to be an advertisement for Indian Kings Mountain Motorycles.
    Let Indian Kings Mountain challenge the posts John or I make.
    You know Indian reads this thread.
    Hoka Hey has half a dozen threads in the blog–post in them if Hoka Hey interests you.
    Funny how folks pop up to divert attention away from Kings Mountain Motorycles when the hype is questioned.

  30. 30 Greek Jan 4th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    09 Indian River and John White belong to the group of KM Indian haters who predicted that the new Indian will never get started, then will never get a dealer, then will not last one year, etc. All wrong! Now they try to spit venom on KM because their crappy Gilroy bikes are worth nothing on the used bike market. John White is proud to sign with “Student, blah, blah, blah”. I never seen anyone signing with student something. Proof that he feels that he is important. Just arrogant. Talk again when you graduate and make Crazy Horse a viable business since you understand business better that others. This guy has hallucinations, he thought he owned the Hoka hey Challenge!. LOL.

  31. 31 09 Indian Rider Jan 4th, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    Hey Greek.
    All right how about this.
    John and I both predicted KM would never make a motorcycle.
    John and I both predicted wrong.(Well we were kind of wrong–Indian Kings Mountain cloned the Gilroy and claim they improved it.)
    John and I predicted they would never last one year.
    We both predicted wrong.

    Prediction defines itself–a guess.
    Facts also define themselves–no guessing, they are — well — FACTUAL.

    Okay–now back to the facts and the meat of this thread.
    Kings Mountain Indians and the facts concerning the 09 Road Master we rode.
    Greek seems a little desperate to disrupt discussion by name calling, and trying to lead the thread away from facts.

    As for the Gilroy bikes being worth nothing?
    Yep–you might be right but it doesn’t really matter in my case I’ll always keep mine running and in my own garage.
    And you might also want to check out the Kings Mountain 09 Indians that are leftover after 2 years.
    Pretty significant price reductions from Indian trying to move them.
    You can now buy a 2009 at SIGNIFICANTLY reduced prices.
    Still can’t say they are worth “nothing” but they are pretty drastically reduced in price.
    You might want to take a look at what you posted about the Gilroy bikes.
    Lot of them out their and a lot of owners happy as can be riding them–in fact quite a few folks proud of their rides.
    You will see me and John telling what that Kings mountain bike gave us but likely you won’t see us calling it a piece of c–p.
    And even if you do find us calling it a piece of c–p the thing to keep in mind is–it would be the OWNER of the specific bike calling it that–not some yahoo making a general statement on other folks rides.
    I enjoyed that KM bike–problem was it wasn’t able to run right.

    The bike featured in this thread is a Charlotte Indian Dealers Motorcycle.
    Mark Moses likely got it featured on this thread–his dealership built it.
    Why not let Mark come on and join the discussion?
    He’ll be able to refute or confirm any comment John or I make as he kept close tabs on the 09 I rode.

  32. 32 09 Indian Rider Jan 4th, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    Oh My Greek.
    Take a look at what you posted in that last one.
    Yep–you look to be a little desperate to distract.
    LMAO–lot of hate going on there.
    You really think all Gilroys are pieces of c–p?
    Lot of folks out there would argue that–lot of folks would take your comments on others rides as just a little offensive.
    Carry on.

  33. 33 09 Indian Rider Jan 4th, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    Aren’t the saddle bag medallions on that bike early HD?

  34. 34 Patumwan Jan 4th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    To 09 Indian.Rider. You wrote “Kings Mountain Indian is aware of this thread–it IS an advertisement”. You statement is absolutely false. I never been solicitated by KM Indian or by Indian Charlotte or by any PR agent or anyone else to write my article. I wrote it on my own initiative. KM Indian is even not a sponsor or advertiser in my Blog, and even if it was the case, I write what I want when I want. It makes me doubt, and I am certain my readers too, of the honesty and sincerity of your other comments on Indian Motorcycle. Under the “Terms Of Use” expressed in my website, any person using “comments” to make on purpose a false public statement against any other person, corporation, group, entity, etc. is automatically banned from my website. For making a false statement against my person, you are now banned from using the Patumwan Blog.

  35. 35 JuanHungLow Jan 4th, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    Wow, looks like John and Ed are back from Christmas vacation. It looks as though The Test Rider / KC Cheef or 09 Indian Rider or Director of Sales for one of John White’s “reverse engineering” companies,has now been banned 3 times here that I count. Their style of message board attacks on Kings Mountain and then self glossing themselves as Indian motorcycle experts is non-sense and quite funny. I get a kick watching these two attack in a subtle and elitist style. How can two guys pimping the Crazy Horse V-Plus, call out Indian Motorcycle of Kings Mountain with a straight face ?
    From what I’ve read in this thread alone, it appears as though the rest of cyber world has caught on to their act.
    Thank You Cyril


    Indian Motorcycle Student
    Monkey Business School of Technology
    University Of Reality

  36. 36 Greek Jan 5th, 2011 at 12:17 am

    These 2 Crazy Horses (John & Ed) are nuts, JuanHungLow, great comment and hilarious signature. John White can’t compete with an honor student like you.

  37. 37 wigwamwam Jan 5th, 2011 at 12:49 am

    Love the new Indians! what is it about the two dudes 09 indian (ed?) and John white always bashing the new indians? It’s pretty obvious they have a hidden agenda to promote the warmed over PP-100 engines rebadged V- by bad mouthing the new Indians any chance they get, and disguise the bashing as informed opinions…..dudes, get a friggin life….John, you didn’t buy Indian, and you never will…get over it, and tame your lapdog…he’s actually more pathetic than you, but understandable since youre exploiting a mentally retarded rider, but even though you have no integrity, you should at least have some sense of self-preservation and tact? The Hokey Hey stench still pervades your essence, and here you are jumping in pretending to be an expert in things you have NO idea of what your talking about.

  38. 38 Rick Lossner Jan 5th, 2011 at 7:59 am

    The Indians are a work of art.. and a blast to ride.

    HD owners stumble when they around.. either drooling , or talking smack.

    I own an ’09 KM version.. .an ’00 Gilroy version… and an ’11 HD… there’s not a single piece of their BS that sticks when they whine, throw stones, etc…

    The ’09 is AWESOME to ride…. it’s a BIG bike ( I”m 6’4 290) .. you can’t say the same for HD’s .. my ’11 R/G feels small compared to my ’09 Indian.

    Amazing how much BS non Indian owners come up with.. then they meander off on their look alike HD……

  39. 39 Richie Finney, London Jan 5th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Brilliant discussion! Indian is emotive!

  40. 40 Richie Finney, London Jan 5th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Im gonna get this printed in the British Indian magazine (there are 2 we don’t even agree this side of the pond!) unless anybody has any objections? Happy New Year to you all!

  41. 41 Administration Jan 5th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Richie Finney.

    You are not authorized to reproduce any part of this Blog or any comments.

    See our terms of use.

  42. 42 Richie Finney, London Jan 5th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Good evening Editor,

    Great pity as it is an amusing and informed discussion however fully understand and will comply with the rules and not print it as per your request!

  43. 43 John White Jan 5th, 2011 at 12:53 pm


    You posted this: “Should we trust John White’s comments? He is the guy who stated all over the web and in this blog that he owned the 2011 Hoka Hey Challenge. Then, he disappeared without any explanation. He owns Crazy Horse, a tiny (sleeping?) company that tried to copy the Gilroy Indian motor but had no money to pay the subcontracted engine manufacturer. Bitter?”

    I see you are up to your old tricks again. Hiding behind a phony name. Tried to copy the Gilroy Indian motor but had no money to pay the subcontractor? Wow, show me one invoice I did not pay in full. TP Engineering does all the machine work on our engines. Perhaps you will trash them too. One phone call to Tom at TP will clear up a lot of your false claims. You are bitter because you could not do the work. You do not know solid works from Packman. Get a life.

  44. 44 D.W. Jan 5th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Nix the fringe and bags. Personally, I think it takes away from the overall bike’s appearance.

  45. 45 John White Jan 5th, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    With regards to Hoka Hey, Jim Red Cloud was taking a lot of hits from everyone and he became discouraged. I would have stepped in but he runs his show. He was going to hand it off. Then he got his mojo back and has launched his latest vision. I wish him luck. I decided to focus on Vets so I put my funds into “Guts and Glory Rally Across America” .

    I wish Jim Red Cloud the best of luck. He is running the largest pay off of any bike event in history. Guts and Glory is a small step. It will help me learn more about organization bike events. I may be involved in the Hoka Hey down the road. Again, I wish Jim the best of luck. He has a lot of riders and the event looks exciting.

    John White
    USMC 1973-1977

  46. 46 John White Jan 5th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    The Indians are a work of art.. and a blast to ride.

    HD owners stumble when they around.. either drooling , or talking smack.

    I own an ’09 KM version.. .an ’00 Gilroy version… and an ’11 HD… there’s not a single piece of their BS that sticks when they whine, throw stones, etc…

    The ’09 is AWESOME to ride…. it’s a BIG bike ( I”m 6’4 290) .. you can’t say the same for HD’s .. my ’11 R/G feels small compared to my ’09 Indian.

    Amazing how much BS non Indian owners come up with.. then they meander off on their look alike HD……

    Now here is a solid comment. If you are six four or taller you belong on the Indian. It is a full eight inches longer than a Harley. You can move the pegs all you want on the Harley but there is no substitute for axle to axle length! That is why you see the “big and tall” on these Indians. This is the nitch area that King’s Mountain has going for them. If you are under six feet you may not fit on the Indian Chief. Both the Gilroy and the Stellican are exactly the same frame so this applys to both.

  47. 47 Krmiller01 Jan 5th, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    I own an 09 Chief Roadmaster and I love it!! Kings Mountain treats me like a VIP if I have a complaint of an idea. I’ve never experienced customer service like they provide and no issue I have brought to their attention has EVER gone ignored. This is my first Indian and I will only be an Indian rider from here on out. It’s truly the American v-twin experience.

  48. 48 D. Kelley Jan 5th, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    I agree. All people at Indian have a lot of class, a lot of knowledge and great respect for their customers. By the way, who is this John white who is talking like he is an expert? He seems to love himself a little bit too much.

  49. 49 Rick Lossner Jan 5th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Helluva’ thread guys.. .lot of stone throwing, etc…. 🙂 But, there is validity in some of what is being said in ‘all camps’.

    The new KM Indians aren’t ‘perfect’, but an awesome bike. For someone to state the Gilroys are crap and have no resell… they aren’t looking at eBay or Craigslist apparently 😉 … They sell between 10 and 20k for a Chief … . Hell, I’m in the process of buying a ‘brand new’ zero mile ’03 Scout… Same price as a new Sportster would set me back …

  50. 50 JuanHungLow Jan 5th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    Here ya go D Kelly…if ya look around on Indian Motorcycle message boards you will see these two polarizing gentlemen are very active. As you can see they are about one in the same.

    So who are 09 Indian Rider (aka Ed) and John White?

    The only way to fairly read their posts is to know if they might have an underlying agenda that could bias their stated opinions.
    I’ll Report, You Decide

    John White is the President of American Pile-driving Equipment (APE).
    He bought the remaining inventory and work in process from some of the suppliers to Indian Motorcycles (Gilroy) after they shutdown.
    He is the owner of Crazy Horse Motorcycles and the V-Plus engine.
    Ed (aka Indian Test Rider) is an employee of APE

    Ed (aka KC CHEEF) is also the official test rider for Crazy Horse Motorcycles.

    The Crazy Horse Motorcycle factory is on the grounds of the APE facility in Kent, WA.

    Again,as you guys can see ….their might be a conflict of interest.
    Calling Indian of Kings Mountain motorcycle engines and “clone” of Gilroy is laughable if you educate yourself about Crazy Horse.

  51. 51 Ronnie Jan 5th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Thank you JuanHungLow’. Now that it is proven that these 2 individuals have financial interest in saying bad things about the new Indians, they should disappear from this website. We want to hear from individuals with no agenda. By the way, John White, if you have no experience at all organizing a motorcycle challenge, you should not even try. It’s the way serious accidents happen.

  52. 52 Johnny Cheapo Jan 5th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    Well, there are pictures of two guys on that link.
    Anyone know if those are the same two guys (Ed and John) that post on here?

  53. 53 09 Indian owner Jan 5th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    I bought an 09 chief this last summer. Comparing the gilroy to a Kings Mountain is like comparing driving a wheelbarrow to a new F-150, the difference is night and day. I have no agenda here, just giving my honest opinion. I bought an Indian because they are hand crafted quality machines. I had a couple of issues but Indian fixed them lickity split and saw everything through to the end. Indian’s mission isn’t to produce the most bikes or find the greatest production efficiencies. They would rather build 300 high quality bikes a year than 1,500 good bikes.

  54. 54 Danny Flucke Jan 6th, 2011 at 1:18 am

    The green is kool – But when are they going to cover it in cow hide…?

    Thanx, Danny

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